Profy is Redesigned and Does Not Lose Comments to FriendFeed Anymore

Svetlana Gladkova,

on August 06, 2008,

You may have noticed that we rolled out a redesign to the Profy blog (if you are not viewing Profy in a feed reader). We feel that the new design is cleaner and hope you will like it as well as we do here.

We have also added some new functional blocks. For example, we have decided that we love our frequent commentators too much not to acknowledge them anywhere so you will now see a special block in the right sidebar where all of them have their proud positions.

What we are especially happy about is the integration of our comments with FriendFeed. It is very similar to what the guys over at ReadWriteWeb have done with their comments but with a few tweaks. In a nutshell the integration works by sending all the comments from our posts here to the respective discussion threads over on FriendFeed, at the same time getting the comments from those threads to appear here as well.

We’ve been arguing that FriendFeed was stealing our comments and fragmenting the conversation but we have finally decided that it is better to learn to achieve peace with them instead of trying to fight them. We were not happy with the existing FriendFeed plugin for Wordpress was since they still leave blogs with two blocks of comments under each post. In addition to combining all the comments in one place, our version of integration supports multi-author blogs where posts may appear on several FriendFeed accounts. We hope we have come up with something useful and when we finalize it as a Wordpress plugin, we will sure make it publicly available for everyone to use.

In the meanwhile I’ll be looking forward to hearing from you about the redesign on Profy - let us know if you like it or what you dislike about it.

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57 Comments (Subscribe to rss)

Grendel - August 06, 2008 at 11:10 am PDT

RSS feed is seriously borked in Google Reader
Svetlana Gladkova - August 06, 2008 at 11:23 am PDT

Grendel, thanks a lot for noticing. The thing is that my admin has broken the feed and seems to have gone offline to sleep already. If I manage to wake him up, I will return the feed back. If not, he’ll do it in the morning. Sorry about the inconvenience!
gregorylent - August 06, 2008 at 11:31 am PDT

is this comment system a plug-in? or a hosted service, it seems nice
mike "glemak" dunn - August 06, 2008 at 12:08 pm PDT

very misleading title - you are actually planning on integrating friendffeed as your commenting system, correct - you’re not claiming that ff is actually “stealing” your comments intentionally, that would be silly and highly provocative of you svetlana - ff can do more good for you than you would do for them…
Svetlana Gladkova - August 06, 2008 at 12:10 pm PDT

Gregory: Thanks, glad you like it. It’s something like a combination of a number of plugins - some of them existing ones, others customary developed by our guys here.
9000 - August 06, 2008 at 12:23 pm PDT

Is this disqus, I wonder?
9000 - August 06, 2008 at 12:24 pm PDT

BTW, my FrF userpic did not get through.
J. Phil - August 06, 2008 at 04:03 pm PDT

It appears that your number of comments at the top of the article does not sync up with the actual number of comments. It may be counting unmoderated comments as well?
Svetlana Gladkova - August 06, 2008 at 08:08 pm PDT

@mike: I don’t really think it’s all that misleading, I wanted to point that we now integrate FF comments right within the discussion on Profy instead of having it on FF only. And there’s no doubt FF is great and can give us a lot, otherwise we would not have bothered to integrate it.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 06, 2008 at 08:46 pm PDT

@mike: I don’t think the title is misleading, it was only meant to show that we have found the way to keep FriendFeed comments right within the discussions on Profy.

@9000: No, it is not Disqus, it is a custom-made commenting system. And we will look into why your FriendFeed userpic is not shown.

@J.Phil: Thank you for noticing, we will try to find the reason out and fix it today.
mike "glemak" dunn - August 06, 2008 at 09:08 pm PDT

so why not something less negative like “profy is redesigned, now with improved integration of friendfeed comments” - by saying that you were losing comments “to” ff you’ve implied that they were taking them from you - which of course they weren’t…
Svetlana Gladkova - August 06, 2008 at 09:08 pm PDT

@mike: This is exactly what they used to do and this is exactly why we argued for so long that FF is damaging conversation on blogs seriously. I don’t think it’s negative, really, I think it just points out that we have found a way not to lose the comments.
Igor The Troll - August 06, 2008 at 10:08 pm PDT

WTF? Semantics! Viral title on point! Since Friend Feed bloggers commenting here not on blogs! So where is the title wrong?
Alexander Williams - August 06, 2008 at 10:08 pm PDT

@Svetlana Gladkova (profy): Svetlana, you never lost those comments. To lose them you’d have to either own or possess them. Your commenters put them where they were most convenient to THEM. You don’t own them. Never did. So, yes, your phrasing is not only misleading, it’s vaguely insulting. As glemak says, FriendFeed was never taking them and suggesting they were even implicitly just echoes in the original tin ear.
mike "glemak" dunn - August 06, 2008 at 10:08 pm PDT

i never bought into the damaging conversation issue but i do see the way you’ve implemented this thread on your blog, which is very cool - most likely i would never have entered into this level of conversation w/ you on your blog prior to friendfeed because profy was just one of ~900 feeds i had in my reader - but friendfeed has allowed this to occur easier i supposed - the fact that its fully represented here and on your blog spliced in w/ your blog-only comments is very slick - well done
Mark Forman - August 06, 2008 at 11:08 pm PDT

Same as Mike said(plural) and Alexander. Good integration Svetlana.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 12:08 am PDT

@Nicholas: This is exactly what we think and this is exactly why we had a developer working on it for almost a month. Hopefully it will be finalized soon so that we could distribute it to other interested bloggers as well.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 12:08 am PDT

@Alexander: I don’t own the comments by our readers and I don’t claim to but since the comments are around the content that we create I believe that it would not hurt having them on our blog as well. BTW, the existing FF plugins already do the same - they just keep them in a separate block under each post. We have chosen to combine them, that’s basically it. And I know that the issue of who owns comments is still too acute but it’s an old discussion that I’m not sure if I want to go in again.
Rahsheen Porter - August 07, 2008 at 12:08 am PDT

It’s funny. Everyone on platforms besides WP cried because they didn’t have a plugin…now most other platforms have more advanced features than the WP plugin
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 12:08 am PDT

@Igor: Can I please ask you to keep a milder tone now that the comments are both here and on Profy as well? Appreciate your support a lot!
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 12:08 am PDT

@Mark Forman: I’m not the one behind the actual coding but thanks anyway and I am glad that you like the integration.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 12:08 am PDT

@mike: Thank you, glad you understand why this has been done even if you don’t believe the fragmented conversation is in any way damaging for blogs.
silpol - August 07, 2008 at 12:08 am PDT

I tend to think opposite - if FF creates environment which draws comments from blogs to them, then there _is_ problem for blogs as it turns into mere place-to-cast-your-raw-brain, while blog shall be place for conversation/discussion. you can talk a lot about commenters leaving their comments where it is good for them, but for blogs it is still situation “lack of oxygen pillow is lack of oxygen pillow no matter what others say you about that”
Nicholas Molnar - August 07, 2008 at 12:08 am PDT

This seems incredibly useful. Looking forward to the WP plugin making its way to all my favorite blogs. Stealing, fragmenting, losing, whatever you want to call it: the old system didn’t work.
gregorylent - August 07, 2008 at 06:34 am PDT

did anybody ask for threads in this way-cool comment structure?

sometimes it ads to the energy if i can talk to another commentor, and follow a new line of thought.

nice work on the design.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 07:48 am PDT

Gregory, no, no one has asked for threads yet but I’m sure many will join you Unfortunately it’s just too much for one plugin for now but we have plans to improve it further obviously. I have become a fan of threaded comments myself recently but you sure understand that they are more difficult to code then the regular ones.
gregorylent - August 07, 2008 at 08:37 am PDT

i love the time-travel date on the comments, don’t fix it, it is sweet … how it says -1 years 12 months ago …
gregorylent - August 07, 2008 at 08:38 am PDT

oh, and it puts them in different order .. mine now went above my previous one … all the little glitches to make things look effortless .. enjoy
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 09:00 am PDT

Gregory, that has just been fixed and hopefully will not be broken again - some glitches with the server time adjustment. I hope we won’t serve as a time-travel machine for everyone
Morgan - August 07, 2008 at 10:08 am PDT

without dipping in to the comment ownership fray here the integration is really well done. it leaves me hoping that disqus will roll out similar functionality at some point.
Alexander Williams - August 07, 2008 at 10:08 am PDT

@Svetlana Gladkova (profy): I’m totally for the comments being replicated down. From a technological and personal perspective, it’s long past time there was a unified comment distribution mechanism and if FF or even Disqus or an unholy hybrid can do that, all the better. No, what I object to is the provocative titling. Profy NEVER lost comments to FriendFeed. Not once. Those comments are of the natural ecology of FF. The implication that, by right, those comments belong to Profy is my objection. (Orthagonally, if most of the comments on/about your site aren’t happening on your site, that’s a reason to consider more than just how to import them.)
Mark Carey - August 07, 2008 at 10:36 am PDT

Svetlana, the FriendFeed integration looks good. I am glad you were inspired by my FriendFeed Comments MT plugin (as used by ReadWriteWeb). A number of Wordpress users have asked me about a version of my plugin — looks like one soon may be available…
Mark Carey - August 07, 2008 at 11:36 am PDT

FYI (bug report): my previous comment, one hour ago, has not appeared on the FF thread, even though I enter my FF info. This comment should also be Cc.ed.

Ps. I like the new design a lot, but your “submit comment” button needs more contrast. I can barely see the light blue against the white on my laptop, and definitely can’t read the white text against the light blue unless I lower my eyes to within a few inches of the button
Alex - August 07, 2008 at 03:46 pm PDT

Great integration, is there a link to read the whole thread on FF?
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 04:08 pm PDT

@Morgan: Thank you and I myself hope that Disqus or SezWho will roll out something similar soon because obviously it will have better chances for wider adoption.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 04:08 pm PDT

@Alexander Williams: Ok, I guess I misunderstood you initially and I now see that you are more uncomfortable about the title only and actually support the integration of comments. I can see how the title can be misleading but since this is exactly how I felt I chose to use it. But it is too difficult discussion about who actually owns discussion around content and I don’t really want to go into it if I can find a workaround.
Alexander Williams - August 07, 2008 at 05:08 pm PDT

@Svetlana Gladkova (profy): Actually, at least in the US, it’s very easy to determine who owns the discussion around any content: the writers. I maintain that such is the only reasonable approach to such things as well, else you’re asserting authority over someone else’s work merely because it’s ABOUT your content, which is hard to defend. FriendFeed doesn’t own my commentary; I do. Once you start with that understanding, a workaround is purely a technical thing and never touches the social, which makes it much easier.
Igor The Troll - August 07, 2008 at 05:08 pm PDT

I just commented on this Profy blog post and it did not show up here! I guess you have to fix that!
silpol - August 07, 2008 at 06:08 pm PDT

@Alexander Williams unless you explain why on Earth I shall expose myself to one of the most wrong jurisdictions in world, I’d rather to call you suggestions silly, ungrounded and shall-be-ignored.
silpol - August 07, 2008 at 06:08 pm PDT

@Alexander Williams - unfortunately you demonstrate classical US approach “everything shall be US-alike just because /inseart-name-here/ has no other experience, even if there is no indication of US around” … I happen to live in EU (in Finland when it comes down to details) and I tend to think we shall not artificially bound us to USA legislation and “order of things” even if we have too many loud mouths which tend to think everything around shall be US-centric.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 06:08 pm PDT

Igor, looks like fixed finally - my previous comment has been sent from the post itself.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 08, 2008 at 01:54 am PDT

Igor, this is exactly what is supposed to happen. There are a few bugs that our guys are fixing right now since this is not exactly stable. As for FF cookie, I am not quite sure it is absolutely possible but I’ll check with our guys, of course.
Igor The Troll - August 08, 2008 at 02:01 am PDT

Now fixed?
Igor The Troll - August 07, 2008 at 07:08 pm PDT

Also when I commented on the blog it brought the comment here but it also brought it to my FF page! I do not know if you want to feed the commentator’s FF page also?
Igor The Troll - August 07, 2008 at 07:08 pm PDT

Ok it send the comment here but does not post it on the blog! Did you turn moderation on?
Igor The Troll - August 08, 2008 at 02:08 am PDT

It is strange! Commenting here send the comment to FF but it places the comment on the blog post in the wrong order!
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 07:08 pm PDT

Fixed from the blog to here but broke vice versa, working on it right now
Igor The Troll - August 07, 2008 at 07:08 pm PDT

Also when you comment here it does not go to the blog! It use to!
Svetlana Gladkova - August 08, 2008 at 02:14 am PDT

@Igor: Yes, extremely strange, this is the wildest thing I’ve seen in my life happening after changing a time zone for a blog. Looking into it right now.
Tom - August 07, 2008 at 09:14 pm PDT

are you ‘arguing’ so you can see if the comments get to FriendFeed?
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 11:24 pm PDT

@Morgan: Thank you and I myself hope that Disqus or SezWho will roll out something similar soon because obviously it will have better chances for wider adoption.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 11:28 pm PDT

@Alexander Williams: Ok, I guess I misunderstood you initially and I now see that you are more uncomfortable about the title only and actually support the integration of comments. I can see how the title can be misleading but since this is exactly how I felt I chose to use it. But it is too difficult discussion about who actually owns discussion around content and I don’t really want to go into it if I can find a workaround.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 11:34 pm PDT

@Mark: Thanks for stopping by and leaving the comments here. True, we were definitely inspired by your plugin for MT but we also felt that it would be better yet to get all the comments right into the posts here.

But as you’ve noticed, it has proven to be more difficult than we hoped and the bugs are here - even though it worked perfect on the test servers. So our guys are trying to fix them right now and hopefully it will be working as supposed to very soon.

True, I have already received a number of requests to offer this as a plugin so we have no other options but to roll it out. I’m not sure how long it will actually take but I hope it will not be too long.

And thanks for the blue button note, this is to be fixed, obviously.
Svetlana Gladkova - August 07, 2008 at 11:35 pm PDT

@Alex: Adding a link to finding the post right on FriendFeed is the next step for this integration that is not ready yet but this particular discussion is at http://friendfeed.com/e/6da20d3f-de92-1ef3-cfb1-ae4a13265d56.
Igor The Troll - August 08, 2008 at 12:45 am PDT

Wow this is cool. So if I comment on Friend Feed it shows up here! And if I comment here it will automatically show up on Friend Feed? Oh I see, I have to CC: it! Can you integrate it that it automatically read the FF cookie and get the key?
Markus - August 08, 2008 at 01:08 am PDT

Let’s all use UTC and forget about different time zones!
Alexander Williams - August 08, 2008 at 03:08 pm PDT

@silpol: I actually have a really good reason, sil: Because if the default ownership of a thing is he who created it, you can give it up or keep it as you will. If it’s owned by someone else, you have no choice in the matter. From the early 60’s, the Net has functioned on the underlying assumption that ideas, writings, creations are the possession of the author and that while redistributing them can be OK, claiming possession is bad. Locking things up is bad. Thus open email architectures, open web architectures, and open RFCs. I suppose the Finns might have tried to create a competing environment. If they were capable. Experience suggests they weren’t, and didn’t.